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#436328 - 08/08/08 03:29 PM The J/M/Z/ problems?
G_Crosstown Offline
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What problems bother you along your commute along the J, M or Z Trains and what would you do to fix them?
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#436358 - 08/08/08 04:40 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
Sam Offline
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I'm a broken record here. The main problem is that there is no direct service to Midtown. While there is a need to serve Downtown Manhattan, three trains running parallel to each other is overkill. One of these trains should merge with the V which also goes nowhere.

Second, the J is interminable to and from Jamaica. Express service should be extended beyond Broadway-Myrtle. It would certainly make the BMT a serious alternative to the overcrowded IND Queens Blvd. line.
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#436365 - 08/08/08 04:53 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: Sam]
Grand Concourse Offline
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Heh, yeah the fantasy proposal of a V-M line would do wonders for the ENY riders. The M is the best choice being the line isn't too long and would hopefully keep riders from transfering to the L at Myrtle-Wycoff.
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#436384 - 08/08/08 06:06 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: Grand Concourse]
ragazzapazza1024 Offline
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The M is slow and the service is too infrequent. The J is not the best train to be on during rush hour, I am not a fan of the skip-stop.
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#436411 - 08/08/08 09:00 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: ragazzapazza1024]
Grand Concourse Offline
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Which wouldn't be a big problem when combined with the V. Worse comes worse 2nd Av would still be kept to turn back the extra trains.
Skip stop is good.

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#436462 - 08/08/08 11:00 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: Grand Concourse]
G_Crosstown Offline
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My problem is the long wait times. The J takes forever to come. It is a god damn lie that the J is on time. Fie upon that. if you ever waited for a J train past BWay Junction, you should know. The J runs too few trains I think.
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#436463 - 08/08/08 11:02 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
G_Crosstown Offline
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Also I never understood why the Z is not the express in that in my opinion what I mean is that

the J and Z should have the same number of trains. Then the J can run local to BWay Junction and the Z can go full express to BWay Junction. Then the J and Z start skip stop service past BWay Junction.

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#436498 - 08/09/08 12:15 AM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
Lex Express Offline
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 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
What problems bother you along your commute along the J, M or Z Trains and what would you do to fix them?


Franklin K. Lane students who ride the J

Skip stop service operates during unrealistic hours
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#436501 - 08/09/08 12:19 AM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: Lex Express]
johnnelson Offline
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Registered: 07/27/08
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yes thats a problem the students avoid the last car after 230pm
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#436586 - 08/09/08 12:15 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
R32_3348 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
My problem is the long wait times. The J takes forever to come. It is a god damn lie that the J is on time. Fie upon that. if you ever waited for a J train past BWay Junction, you should know. The J runs too few trains I think.


The J is very regular but it's just the fact that it runs too few trains. It never comes because its scheduled that way. Although, a train being on time means that it arrives within 5 minutes of its schedule, so it could be that as well.
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#436637 - 08/09/08 03:41 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: R32_3348]
G_Crosstown Offline
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Because it runs too few trains, it is often overcrowded and is hence delayed. There is a clear connection between overcrowding and long wait times.
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#436638 - 08/09/08 03:41 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
G_Crosstown Offline
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What also sux about the J is that it has to stop at Myrtle for the M to cross, delaying trains and limiting capacity.
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#436639 - 08/09/08 03:43 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
G_Crosstown Offline
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Another thing that sux is that the J has to operate at low speeds and or outright stop its engines and allow its own momentum to carry it arond the ridiculosly tight curves, the first between BWay Junction and Alabama, the next being the 2 S curves at Crescent and the last before entering the Archer Ave spur.
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#436668 - 08/09/08 07:31 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
ragazzapazza1024 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
My problem is the long wait times. The J takes forever to come. It is a god damn lie that the J is on time. Fie upon that. if you ever waited for a J train past BWay Junction, you should know. The J runs too few trains I think.

I fully agree. I think even after Woodhaven Blvd, the trains are too infrequent.
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#436766 - 08/09/08 10:54 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: ragazzapazza1024]
G_Crosstown Offline
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I just feel like that the trains are always crappy and late so hence the MTA just modified the schedule to say that the train comes at its late time and hence by the new schedule it is on time.

In my opionon to solve the problem, send more trains up the track and have both the Z and the J run with R 160s so in that way, when a z reaches its terminal, it does not have to run back to the yard, it can just flip to a J and continue service on the return trip as a J and then flip back to Z and run again.

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#436797 - 08/09/08 11:34 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
R42 4811 Offline
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Registered: 06/14/03
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 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
Another thing that sux is that the J has to operate at low speeds and or outright stop its engines and allow its own momentum to carry it arond the ridiculosly tight curves, the first between BWay Junction and Alabama, the next being the 2 S curves at Crescent and the last before entering the Archer Ave spur.



Trains don't have engines,and you want the trains go fast on these curves?those 2 curves are sharp.
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#436798 - 08/09/08 11:35 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: R42 4811]
R42 4811 Offline
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Registered: 06/14/03
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Never had any problems on J,M,Z lines.
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The R42 rule!

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#436878 - 08/10/08 12:19 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: G_Crosstown]
R32_3348 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
I just feel like that the trains are always crappy and late so hence the MTA just modified the schedule to say that the train comes at its late time and hence by the new schedule it is on time.




 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
In my opionon to solve the problem, send more trains up the track and have both the Z and the J run with R 160s so in that way, when a z reaches its terminal, it does not have to run back to the yard, it can just flip to a J and continue service on the return trip as a J and then flip back to Z and run again.


Both the J and Z are scheduled to run only R160As. And you r other proposal of the Z staying a J train until the next rush, that's what started last week. The 5 R160s on the J are the Z trains.


Edited by R32_3348 (08/10/08 12:19 PM)
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#437147 - 08/11/08 12:33 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: R32_3348]
MikeMV924 Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
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Loc: Middle Village, NY
 Originally Posted By: R32_3348
 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
I just feel like that the trains are always crappy and late so hence the MTA just modified the schedule to say that the train comes at its late time and hence by the new schedule it is on time.




 Originally Posted By: G_Crosstown
In my opionon to solve the problem, send more trains up the track and have both the Z and the J run with R 160s so in that way, when a z reaches its terminal, it does not have to run back to the yard, it can just flip to a J and continue service on the return trip as a J and then flip back to Z and run again.


Both the J and Z are scheduled to run only R160As. And you r other proposal of the Z staying a J train until the next rush, that's what started last week. The 5 R160s on the J are the Z trains.


Great pic, exactly how I've been reacting G Crosstown's comments

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#437150 - 08/11/08 12:44 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: MikeMV924]
MikeMV924 Offline
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I can't help but wonder if people who are all for the M running up 6th Ave actually riders of the M or are they casual riders? I ride the M from Middle Village to Canal Street everyday and of course it'd be easier to not have to transfer but grabbing the N or Q at Canal gets you to midtown pretty quickly. I would rather stay on the M all the way to the city than transfer to the L as well, that may be more direct but in the end it really doesn't save much time. Just like jumping onto the J at Myrtle, you get to stops in the city maybe 5 min earlier.
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#437255 - 08/11/08 09:59 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: MikeMV924]
Sam Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MikeMV924
I can't help but wonder if people who are all for the M running up 6th Ave actually riders of the M or are they casual riders? I ride the M from Middle Village to Canal Street everyday and of course it'd be easier to not have to transfer but grabbing the N or Q at Canal gets you to midtown pretty quickly. I would rather stay on the M all the way to the city than transfer to the L as well, that may be more direct but in the end it really doesn't save much time. Just like jumping onto the J at Myrtle, you get to stops in the city maybe 5 min earlier.


It's more than just saving a few minutes; the fact is that Nassau Street does not warrant three lines running to Broad Street. With overcrowding on most major lines, it makes more sense to increase capacity on an underutilized line by merging it with another and provide a much-needed service that has been lacking for years.

The subways can expect even more ridership as driving becomes less and less affordable and practical. It will be years before new lines (SAS) are added to take away the overcrowding on existing lines. Therefore, some lines need to be revisited to make them absorb the riders from those that are overcrowded.
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#437312 - 08/12/08 06:28 AM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: Sam]
Alon Offline
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Registered: 08/25/07
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To say nothing of the fact that none of the current projects is going to do anything about the crowding problems on the L, which is largely what the V-M combination is supposed to solve.
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#437354 - 08/12/08 12:46 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: Alon]
MikeMV924 Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
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Loc: Middle Village, NY
 Originally Posted By: Alon
To say nothing of the fact that none of the current projects is going to do anything about the crowding problems on the L, which is largely what the V-M combination is supposed to solve.


Think I have an idea, not sure if anyone has thought of this one but the V gets scrapped totally, F replaces the V route from Forest Hills to 6th Ave. Q is extended through 63rd Street tunnel along the former F route to Hillside Ave. M train runs up 6th Ave and is able to turn around at 57th and 6th Ave since the F no longer runs down from 63rd Street anymore. Z is extended to Bay Pkwy to replace the M since it only runs rush hours anyway. The only loss is to the 2nd Ave stop on the V which can be shut down.

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#437356 - 08/12/08 12:53 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: MikeMV924]
R-7 SEPTA Local Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MikeMV924
 Originally Posted By: Alon
To say nothing of the fact that none of the current projects is going to do anything about the crowding problems on the L, which is largely what the V-M combination is supposed to solve.


Think I have an idea, not sure if anyone has thought of this one but the V gets scrapped totally, F replaces the V route from Forest Hills to 6th Ave. Q is extended through 63rd Street tunnel along the former F route to Hillside Ave. M train runs up 6th Ave and is able to turn around at 57th and 6th Ave since the F no longer runs down from 63rd Street anymore. Z is extended to Bay Pkwy to replace the M since it only runs rush hours anyway. The only loss is to the 2nd Ave stop on the V which can be shut down.


So let me get this idea staright & correct?

"F" runs as QB/6th Local between Forest Hills and Coney Island at all times.

"M" runs between 57th/6th and Metro Ave via 6th Ave Local/Crystiie Connection/Williamsburg Local daily except late nights.

"Q" runs between 179th St/Jamaica and Coney Island via QB Express/63rd 24/7 then along current route to Stillwell.

"Z" runs between Broadway Junction and Bay Parkway via Broadway-Brooklyn-Williamsburg-Nassau then along the existing "M" line?

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#437364 - 08/12/08 01:09 PM Re: The J/M/Z/ problems? [Re: R-7 SEPTA Local]
MikeMV924 Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
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 Originally Posted By: R-7 SEPTA Local
 Originally Posted By: MikeMV924
 Originally Posted By: Alon
To say nothing of the fact that none of the current projects is going to do anything about the crowding problems on the L, which is largely what the V-M combination is supposed to solve.


Think I have an idea, not sure if anyone has thought of this one but the V gets scrapped totally, F replaces the V route from Forest Hills to 6th Ave. Q is extended through 63rd Street tunnel along the former F route to Hillside Ave. M train runs up 6th Ave and is able to turn around at 57th and 6th Ave since the F no longer runs down from 63rd Street anymore. Z is extended to Bay Pkwy to replace the M since it only runs rush hours anyway. The only loss is to the 2nd Ave stop on the V which can be shut down.


So let me get this idea staright & correct?

"F" runs as QB/6th Local between Forest Hills and Coney Island at all times.

"M" runs between 57th/6th and Metro Ave via 6th Ave Local/Crystiie Connection/Williamsburg Local daily except late nights.

"Q" runs between 179th St/Jamaica and Coney Island via QB Express/63rd 24/7 then along current route to Stillwell.

"Z" runs between Broadway Junction and Bay Parkway via Broadway-Brooklyn-Williamsburg-Nassau then along the existing "M" line?


Yes that's what I was thinking, sorry I should've spaced it out better like you did. I also forgot to mention the Z should run from Broadway Junction instead of Jamaica Center due to the length on the Brooklyn run along the West End. Forgot to include the times as well but yours are good. Still confused or all good?

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